Josip Tešija: " I Hrvatska ima svoje McQueenove"

Josip Tešija dočekao nas je u svom drugom domu - Galeriji Kranjčar te nas kao pravi domaćin nakon poljubaca dobrodošlice ponudio sušenim smokvama. Ova me poslastica momentalno vratila u djetinjstvo provedeno u Dalmatinskoj Zagori, koje smo se Josip i ja odmah dotaknuli, budući da dijelimo iste korijene. Korijeni su dijelom i razlog zbog čega se ovaj uspješan model, kustos i ono što bismo nazvali "pravi čovjek" odlučio vratiti u zemlju iz koje je otišao kako bi pokorio modne piste od Milana do Pariza. Kakva je privatno Vivienne Westwood, zašto je Paris tako magičan, a Hamburg pravi grad za kulturu, kao i što čini uspješnog dizajnera, pročitajte u tekstu koji slijedi. 

Tko je Josip Tešija svojim riječima?

Jednostavan, normalan, skroman, osoba koja voli pomoći ljudima, koja voli ljude, životinje, umjetnost, svestrana osoba...

Tko je Josip Tešija u profesionalnom smislu, što je on sve prošao, što smatra da su njegova najveća postignuća?

Moja najveća postignuća su...zapravo najvažnije što sam prošao je jedno veliko životno iskustvo, život u stranim metropolama, život s ljudima, upoznavanje ljudi, malih, velikih, svih, svih nacija, narodnosti. Mislim da je to moje veliko životno iskustvo, a ovo što sam kustos, model ili maneken, to je dio mene, dio mog života, ali nekako stavljam čovjeka na prvo mjesto jer držim se one poznate Henryja Millera, najvećeg pisca američkog, europskog, svjetskog koji je rekao: "Čovjek je onoliki koliki je pred Bogom i ništa više".

Spomenuo si život u metropoli. Kako taj život u metropoli, pogotovo izvan granica Hrvatske, utječe na čovjeka, koliko ga promijeni? I koja je osnovna razlika kada govorimo o životu vani i životu u Hrvatskoj?

Puno, puno ga promijeni. Razlika je u toj jednostavnosti, ljudi gore žive drugačije, ne zanimaju ih tuđi životi, ne zanimaju ih nekakve gluposti kojima se mi ovdje zamaramo, neke trivijalnosti. Sve što rade, gledaju da rade na ispravan način. Ne zanima ih ništa drugo, ne zanima ih ni moda.

Stvarno?

Tako je. Samo malu skupinu ljudi u jednoj Francuskoj, Njemačkoj ili Španjolskoj zanima moda. Ostali ljudi su vrlo ležerni i cijene ono što mi ne cijenimo. To su zrak, voda, prijatelji, te elementarne stvari u životu, koje mi još ne znamo cijeniti.

A kažu da smo mi Hrvati prisni, topli, više volimo te "ljudske" osobine nego stranci....

Ne bih se složio, stranci se možda sporije otvaraju i treba im duže vremena, ali kad postanete prijatelji, prijatelji ste do kraja života. Mi njegujemo drugu vrstu prijateljstva, mi smo na prvo upoznavanje prijatelji, to je odmah suživot, iza toga dođu problemi, dođe do svađa...Mi zapravo dosta često mijenjamo prijatelje, to sam primijetio i često tražimo prijatelje. U stranim zemljama to nije tako. Dugo treba dok te upoznaju, ali kad te upoznaju, onda je to prijateljstvo zagarantirano.

Koji gradovi su se te posebno dojmili dok si živio vani?

Pariz i Hamburg?

Zašto?

Pariz svojom otvorenošću kao prvo...

Ah taj Pariz, magičan baš svima, gotovo da je ta opčinjenost Parizom već postala klišej...

Pariz ima to nešto što mi ne možemo zamisliti. Prvo ta sloboda, ta jednakost, ta supomoć, taj grad ti pruža sve, ljudi u njemu ti pružaju sve, taj grad ti otvara svoja vrata, želi te upoznati, proučiti i pokazati Francusku i Pariz na jedan drugačiji način. Recimo, kažu za Parižane da su tri momenta bitna. To su chic, crna boja i mršavost. Ja se ne bih složio. Ima tu još stvari koje su zanimljive za Francuze. To je stvarno jedna čudna energija, puna ljubavi. Pritom, ja govorim iz svoje perspektive. Ne moraju ga svi baš tako doživjeti. Ja sam radio i druge poslove tamo uz modeling, čovjek mora kako bi preživio. To je skup grad, ali ja sam imao sreću u životu što sam naišao na prave ljude, prave prijatelje. Uvijek govorim da je najvažnije u životu to što sam naišao na prave prijatelje.

Kod Pariza me osvaja i ta visoka kultura, nema tu površnosti. Kad ste s takvim ljudima, u takvom okruženju, učit ćete od najboljih. Tu su i muzeji, vi jednostavno lepršate od arhitekture, od izgleda...

A Hamburg?

Hamburg je grad kulture. Kad mi ljudi kažu da su Nijemci hladni... ma nisu hladni, nego normalni i pristupačni. Taj grad...to je grad s najviše teatara. Kao prvo ima predivnu kinoteku, koja odiše prošlošću Hamburga, mirišeš u kinu taj stari ambijent, premda sam sad čuo da je renovirana...Ti filmovi koji su na repertoaru...Tu je i posebno kazalište za balet, posebno za dramu...oni imaju nekoliko kazališnih kuća, a uz to imaju i oko 45 institucija koje se bave kulturom. Što se tiče samog plesa, imate balet, što sam već rekao, pa moderni ples, afrički ples... Tu su i dokovi Elbe koji su bili srušeni u Drugom svjetskom ratu, a onda su renovirani i pretvoreni u prekrasne šetnice...i sva ta skladišta koja su nekad bila napuštena su iskoristili za umjetnička događanja. Vi ne znate gdje ćete u jednom Hamburgu van. Pa ta arhitektura...to vam je jedan vrlo egzotičan grad. I susretnete stotinu nacija u jedan dan. Nitko ne pita nikog ni tko je, ni što je, ni odakle je.

Kako to da si se vratio?

Meni je Hrvatska uvijek bila zanimljiva, draga, ja je volim, to je moj dom, nekako sam i kasnije otišao van. Smatram da je bolje otići van što ranije kako čovjek ne bi imao toliku povezanost. Ali ta povezanost ipak nekako uvijek ostaje. Mi Hrvati imamo tu specifičnu povezanost sa svojom zemljom. Tu je vam je obitelj...ima tu nešto. Uvijek nekako žudite. Ali moram nešto reći, u Hrvatskoj je život lakši.

Je li za osobni razvitak čovjeka bitno da putuje i živi vani?

U...vama mladima pogotovo. Samo multifolkloralnost, multikulturalnost čovjeku daje bolje poglede na život, bolje shvaćanje drugačijeg, bolje shvaćanje ljudi.

Koja bi bila tvoja definicija uspjeha? Postoji li uopće definicija uspjeha?

Uspjeha...hm...ljubav. Po meni je to ljubav. Kada nekoga voliš u životu, od koga nemaš koristi i ne tražiš korist. Kad ga voliš svim srcem i kad si došao do te stepenice da ti on nije potreban u materijalnom smislu, da ga ne gledaš kroz materijalno, nego kao osobu. To je dostignuće u životu.

Možeš li reći da si uspješan u životu i da si se profesionalno ostvario?

Mislim da jesam, nisam tražio puno, ali nisam ni malo, mislim da još mogu. Mislim da sam još na razvojnom putu. Kažu da su najbolja književna djela nastajala u 70-im godinama života, i da tada pisci dobivaju nagrade pa čak i u devetom desetljeću svog života. Dobro, ne mogu se usporediti s njima, ali nije još kasno. Dok god živimo, nije nikad kasno.

Misliš li da je danas moda pretjerano trivijalizirana?

Da!

Što misliš da je dovelo do toga?

Brzina nastajanja. Nema više sporosti u modi koja je vladala 90-ih, pa čak i početkom 21. stoljeća. Sada se u sve upleo kapitalizam. Danas je moda brza, kapitalistička. Brzo se mijenjaju i manekene i dizajneri, sve je novac, samo novac, velike kuće samo grabe....Nema više te profiliranosti, da dizajner može kreirati ono što on želi. Čak i kada to zaista želi, kaže mu se: "Ali znate mi moramo misliti na novac, mi se moramo pokriti". Također sve više modela mora raditi druge poslove kako bi preživjeli jer ne zarađuju dovoljno samo od modelinga.

Koji dizajneri s kojima si surađivao su te najviše osvojili? Tko je ostavio najveći dojam na tebe kao na čovjeka?

Vivienne Westwood i muž Andreas Kronthaler te Jean Paul Gaultier.

Što je to u Viviene što te osvojilo?

Ludost, jedna životna ludost, energija, ljubav prema dizajnu i kreativnosti. Ona je potpuno otvorena, slobodna, najslobodnija osoba koju sam upoznao u životu.

Zanimljivo da ju taj kapitalistički stroj o kojem si pričao nije pojeo...

Da, ona smatra da mora imati zaradu za sebe, svoga muža, sve ljude koje mora pokriti, i kad sve pokrije, to je za nju sasvim dovoljno. Ona želi i dalje prikazivati ono što želi, ne želi da ju itko sputava i uništava. Dok je jedan Valentino, haute coutureovac kakvog nema, čijih je 90 posto stvari rađeno ručno, morao prodati svoju firmu. Nije to lako baš lako. Možda ipak treba i malo sreće.

U kojem omjeru nam treba sreća za uspjeh, a u kojem onaj neki unutrašnji pokretač?

Mislim da je ta kreativnost presudna. Pravi dizajner koji je kreativan, koji se zna izraziti, koji je buntovan, on će uspjeti. Velike struje, korporacije, mediji, novinari, muze i pojedinci će obratiti pažnju na njega i to je uspjeh. Znači treba biti čudan, drugačiji, kreativniji. To je plod uspjeha jednog dizajnera. To je recimo bio McQueen. Na prvoj mojoj ljestvici života, na prvom pijedestalu to je Alexander McQueen.

Misliš da Hrvatska ima svoje McQueenove?

Naravno, to su prvo moram reći stara trojka Nada Došen, Branka Donassy i Keti Balogh. Od mlađih dizajnera to su Silvio Ivkić, Matija Čop, a tu je i Ivana Popović za koju kažu da je naša Vivienne Westwood. Imate i Anu Kujundžić, Ivanu Srzić Budić, Ivana Midžića što se tiče nakita, koji radi čuda, koji je vani već uspješan, a koji iz nakita radi skulpture. Nedavno je imao izložbu u galeriji Kranjčar.

I na kraju da se osvrnemo na Galeriju Kranjčar kad si je spomenuo. U čemu je čar ove galerije koja je i meni osobno magičan prostor?

To su energija, gospođa Elvira i treće mali Palais de Tokyo. Dakle, ljubaznost gospođe Elvire koja je od ovog prostora zaista napravila mali Palais de Tokyo. A i na Gornjem gradu smo, tu je ta blizina i energija katedrale u kojoj se stotine ljudi moli svaki dan pa se ta energija širi dalje u obliku molitve. I to je jedan dio igre.

Što nam Galerija Kranjčar posebno priprema?

Projekt koji je definitivno obilježio prošlu godinu, a s kojom nastavljamo i dalje je Mentalni sklop.

Da, Mentalni sklop je bio pravi hit, čemu po tebi ovaj projekt duguje toliki uspjeh?

Dakle, imali smo 10 suvremenih umjetnika, odnosna mentora i sljedbenika, to je bilo 10 najboljih i publika je oduševljena, dobili smo jednu urbanu publiku kao i poštenu celebrity publiku. I da se razumijemo, nema vam nikakve razlike između celebrityja u Zagrebu i onog u Parizu. Samo što će vam na promociju vani doći novinara Voguea i Ellea, a ovdje Storyja i Glorije. Mi smo dobili tu pozitivnu publiku, školovanu, intelektualce. A ta urbana publika vam je ona koja se povukla u kuće od ove folk parade trenutno vlada i mi smo je evo dobili da izađe, i to sa zvučnim imenima te dobro postavljenim izložbama koje su pokazale kao pravi hit.

Photo by Juraj Vuglač

Intervju by Iva Hanzen

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                 Josip Tešija: "Croatia has its McQueens too"

Josip Tešija welcomed us in his second home – Kranjčar Gallery and as a real host after kisses of welcome he offered us dried figs. This treat immediately took me back to my childhood spent in Dalmatian Zagora, about which Josip and I had to say few words, since we share the same roots. Roots are part of the reason why this successful model, curator and what you would call "a real man" decided to return to the country from which he left to conquer the catwalks from Milan to Paris. What isVivienne Westwood like, why is Paris so magical, and Hamburg the best city for culture, plus what makes a successful designer, read below.

Who is Josip Tešija using his own words?

Easy, normal, humble person who likes to help people, who loves people, animals, art, an all-rounder.

Who is JosipTešija in the professional sense, what does he consider to be his greatest achievement?

My greatest achievements are... actually the most important is my great life experience, life in foreign capitals, life with people, getting to know people, small, big, all, all nations and nationalities, I think it is my great life experience that matters, and the fact that I am a curator or a model, it's just part of me, part of my life, but somehow I put people first. Because I believe in well-known Henry Miller sentence, who is the greatest American, European, World writer, who said: "A man is as big as he is with God, nothing more".

You mentioned life in a metropolis. How does living in a big capital city, especially outside Croatian borders, affects the man, how much it changes him? And what is the main difference when we talk about life abroad and life in Croatia?

A lot, it affects the man a lot. The main difference is the simplicity, people abroad live differently, they are not interested in other people's lives, nonsense and trivia we bother with here. Everything they do, they are trying to do the right way. They don't care about anything, they don't even care about fashion.

Really?

That's right. Only a small group of people in let's say France, Germany or Spain is interested in fashion. Other people are very casual and appreciate things we don't appreciate here. Things like air, water, friends, basic things in life, which we still don't know how to appreciate.

And they say we Croats are so warm and that we like those "human" atributes more than the others ....

I can not agree, foreign people may be slower to open up and they need a long time, but when you become friends, you are friends forever. We cultivate other type of friendship, we are friends from the start, we immediately seek for co-existence, after that come problems and quarrels ... Actually we change friends quite often, I noticed, and we often seek for friends. In foreign countries, that is not the case. I takes long until they get to know you, but when they do, friendship is guaranteed.

What cities you lived in particularly impressed you?

Paris and Hamburg...

Why?

Paris with its openness ...

Ah that Paris, the magic city, it's almost like this fascination with Paris became a cliché ...

Paris has something that we can not imagine. First, the freedom, the equality, the help, this city provides you all, people in it give you all, this city opens its doors to you, it wants to know you, study you and show France and Paris in a different way. They say that there are three important moments for Parisians. The chic, the black and the thinness. I would disagree. There are more interesting things about French. It's really a strange energy, full of love. In doing so, I speak from my own perspective. It is possible that not all people have experienced this. I had other jobs when I was there beside modeling, you must in order to survive. It is an expensive city, but I had good fortune in my life and encountered many good people, real friends. I always say that the most important thing in my life is that I've encountered some really good friends.

I also have to say that Paris overwhelmed me with its high culture, there is no superficiality in Paris. When you are with people like that, in such an environment, you will learn from the best. There are also museums, you just flutter from the architecture, from the looks ...

And Hamburg?

Hamburg is the city of culture. When people tell me that Germans are cold... they are not cold, but normal and accessible. The city ... this is a city with the most theaters. Firstly a wonderful cinematheque, which evokes the past of Hamburg, smell in the cinema gives that old ambience, although I heared that they renovated it now ... These films that are in the repertoire ... There is a special theater for ballet, special for drama .. .they have several theaters, and they also have about 45 culture institutions. As for the dance, they have ballet, as I mentioned, and then modern dance, African dance ... There are also docks of Elba, which were destroyed in World War II and then were renovated and turned into beautiful promenades..there also all the warehouses that used to be abandoned and now they are used for artistic events. You don't know where to go out when you are in Hamburg. And the architecture ... it is a very exotic city. You meet hundred nations in one day there. Nobody asks anybody where are they from, who they are and what are they doing.

How come you came back?

Croatia has always been interesting and dear to me, I love it, that's my home, and I went abroad in my later years also. I think it is better to go abroad as early as possible so you wouldn't have such a connection. But this relationship somehow always remains. We Croats have that specific relationship with our country. There is your family ... there's something. You always somehow crave. But I have to say something. In Croatia, life is easier.

Is it for personal development of a man essential to travel and live abroad?

O yes ... for you young people especially. Only multiculturalism gives better view of life, a better understanding of all things different, better understanding of other people too.

What would be your definition of success? Is there a definition of success?

Success ... um ... love. I call that love. When you love someone, from who you do not have any use. When you love him or her with all your heart, and when you came to that point when you don't need him or her in the material sense, when you don't care for material things, but for a person. This is an achievement in life.

Do you think that fashion is excessively trivialized today?

Yes.

What do you think led to this?

The fast pace of everything. There is no more slowness in fashion that ruled in the 90's, and even at the beginning of the 21st century. Now capitalism is involved in everything. Today fashion is fast, capitalist. Everything is changing quickly, models and designers as well, everything is about the money, only money, big houses just grab for themselves .... A designer can't create what he or she wants. Even if he or she really wants to do something, they say: "But you know we have to think of money, we have to cover ourselves". Even more and more models have to work other jobs to survive because they do not earn enough from modeling.

Which designers you worked with abroad left the biggest impression on you as a person?

Vivienne Westwood and her husband Andreas Kronthaler and Jean Paul Gaultier.

What is it about Vivienne that won you over?

Crazyness, craziness for life, her energy, her love for design and creativity. She is completely open and free, the freest person I've met in my life.

It is interesting that this capitalist machine you were talking about did not eat her up ...

Yes, she consideres she has to be make profit for herself, her husband and all the people she must cover, and when she pays them all, that's enough for her enough. She wants to continue to show what he wants, she doesn't want anybody to imprison and destroy her. While Valentino, a haute couture designer like no other, whose 90 percent of things were done by hand, had to sell his company, is not so easy. Maybe you need a little luck also.

To wich extent we need luck to succeed, and in which that internal drive?

I think that creativity is crucial. Genuine designer who is creative, who knows how to express, who is rebellious, he/she will succeed. Corporations, media, journalists, muses and individuals will pay attention to him/her and it will lead to success. You have to be weird, different, creative. It is the fruit of the success for a designer. It is for example McQueen. I hold Alexander McQueen on a pedestal.

Do you think Croatia has its McQueens?

Of course, first I have to mention the old trio Nada Došen, Branka Donassy and Keti Balogh. From young designers there are Silvio Ivkić, Matija Čop, and there is also Ivana Popović who they call Croatian Vivienne Westwood. Then you have Ana Kujundžić, Ivana Srzić Budić, Ivan Midžić who designs jewelry, and creates wonderful pieces, and who is also already successful abroad. He also makes sculptures out of his jewlery. He recently had an exhibition at the Kranjčar Gallery.

Let's talk about Kranjčar Gallery at the very end, now when you mentioned it. What is the charm of this gallery which is also my personal magical space?

It's all about energy, Mrs. Elvira and third small Palais de Tokyo. So, it's warmth and courtesy of Mrs. Elvira who really made a small Palais de Tokyo from this place. And we are also settled in the Upper Town area, there is the proximity and energy of the Cathedral where hundreds of people pray every day, and this energy is passed on in the form of prayer. And that's part of the game too.

What is Kranjčar Gallery preparing for us in the future?

The project, which definitely marked previous year, and with which we continue is Mentalni sklop

Mentalni sklop was a real hit, what according to you made this project so successful?

We had 10 contemporary artists, both mentors and followers, it was the top 10 artists in Croatia and the audience was thrilled, we got this urban audience and honest celebrity audience. And to be sure, there is no difference between celebrities in Zagreb and those in Paris. The difference is that abroad you  will get journalists from Vogue and Elle to come, and here those from Story and Gloria. We have got that positive audience, educated, intellectuals. And urban audience is the one that stays at home away from the folk parade that is currently on and we made them go out, with renowned names and good exhibition, which proved to be a hit.

Photo: Juraj Vuglač

Interview by Iva Hanzen